i guess @Not_Oles gonna one of these shortly!

Not_Oles · February 2021

@seenu said at https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/comment/55523/#Comment_55523

i guess @Not_Oles gonna one of these shortly!

I would get one in a flash if a few people convinced me they would come aboard. Who's in?

Greetings from Mexico! ??

Asim · February 2021

@Not_Oles What would be the pricing like? same as your exclusive advertisement or different?

Not_Oles · February 2021

@Asim

The AX101 server costs € 99.00 per month, plus additional IP addresses., for example € 26.89 monthly for a /27. Could add a 12 TB SATA for € 24.00.

Base specs are 16 cores, 32 threads, 128 GB ECC, and 2 x 3.84 TB NVMe.

What plans and prices would you like to see?

willie · February 2021

A big attraction of a box like that is using all the cores to compute something fast, and that doesn't really fit in with multiple users with vm's. I guess it's still quite a good cpu and ssd to cost ratio as a VM box though. Also I'd like to know the write endurance of the ssd's. I fear they might be QLC given the very low price.

nullnothere · February 2021

@willie said: write endurance of the ssd

Knowing Hetzner and the fact that they mention these as datacenter SSDs I'd assume that they have pretty decent endurance.

Irrespective, I also assume that if you're nearing end of life on these drives, they will replace them without issue (and quickly at that).

So all in all, I'd assume that you're covered as far as these drives go from a endurance standpoint.

I'll just tag @Hetzner_OL in case an official reassurance will help.

I must say that the recent Hetzner hardware line up refresh has been really great - the SX63 and now the AX101 - they both are really raising the bar on the performance-price ratio. If only more of us low-end-(l)users could splurge on afford them.

willie · February 2021

Data center QLC is a thing though:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12423/micron-readies-3d-qlc-nand-based-datacenter-ssds-for-nearline-storage

It does have good hosting applications, i.e. for serving lots of static files. Much faster access than HDD's and cheaper than more durable SSD's, just not built for lots of write cycles.

seenu · February 2021

my feeling is you should ditch one of your AX51 with ECC ram and move all data/clients to this one.

you get ECC ram directly and double cores and much more space here and you don't pay double price anyways.

the only issue with hetz is ip costs

so if you divide it into 8 pieces... each can get 4/8 cores (depends on how you define a core) , 16GB ram and ~475GB storage which would cost around 12.5 and ip addresses extra

so with this server....you can offer better specs at your current price (or you can even offer small plans but fk ip costs)

Not_Oles · February 2021

@Not_Oles said: Base specs are 16 cores, 32 threads, 128 GB ECC, and 2 x 3.84 TB NVMe.

Anybody wanna check my arithmetic?

What happens if we divide the AX101 into 32 slices, one for each thread?

Name	Base	Base/32
Thread	32	1
ECC RAM (GB)	128	4
NVMe (GB)	7680	240
IPv4s (/27)	30	1
Base Price (€)	99.00	3.09
IP price (€)	26.89	0.84
Total (€)	125.89	3.93

Open issues:

Bad news first. Grumpy, ignorant, clueless administrator wants profit. ?
No RAID. No backup system. Could cut disk space in half and use RAID 1. Or zfs, etc. Or add more NVMe or rust at higher cost.
Almost enough IPv4s! Probably at least two people would want to stack other resources while needing only one IPv4.
Additional costs: Hetzner € 99 once off setup fee; Hetzner IPv6 once off fee; payment gateway fees.

Not_Oles · February 2021

Might it make a difference in performance if I switch from Ax51 with AMD Ryzen 7 3700X to AX101 with AMD Ryzen 9 5950X?

Processor	Single Thread Performance
AMD Ryzen 9 5950X	3491
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X	2690
Increase	801
% Increase	30

yoursunny · February 2021

@Not_Oles said:
Total (€) 3.93

That's a nice price if user needs a lot of NVMe.

Fixed that for you:
Grumpy, ignorant, clueless Greedy administrator wants profit. ?
Greedy Hetzner € 99 once off setup fee; clueless Hetzner IPv6 once off fee.

No RAID. No backup system.

RAID is for weaklings.
If the disk fails, just do 1 push-up for every GB lost to ask for forgiveness, and then move on.

RAID and backups at the same provider are rarely useful because the ignorant administrator could delete the data with a fat finger.
User should always keep a backup at a different provider.

RaveX · February 2021

Ordered one myself. Will do benchmarks and maybe some free demo VMs. However, i wont sell from this.

TheDP · February 2021

@RaveX said:
Ordered one myself. Will do benchmarks and maybe some free demo VMs. However, i wont sell from this.

Enjoy! ?

cybertech · February 2021

the table above allocates one full thread per VM, presumably almost dedicated. if that's the plan and model, all good.

or, maybe it is possible to fit in 40VMs with say, 3GB ram. And maybe it's good to make RAID1 as a minimal form of protection? or adding 2 more NVMe to do a RAID10 to add value, speed and space. anyway it's still a healthy ~70-80GB per VM.

on top of that, might be worth considering allocating 2 vCPU per VM to allow bursting with an AUP (say 50% of a vCPU for sustained use etc)

with such a high single thread score, for reasonable installation / compiling use it would take much less time compared to say...lemme guess.....intel? so then the overall load in theory should be lower as everything gets done faster, so taking time into consideration its probably a lot less overlap/concurrency with neighbours' use down to the ms (or ns)? translates to more "carrying capacity" per node.

at some point contention ratio may have to go above 1:1.

willie · February 2021

32 slices = you're supplying yet another small cheap KVM product. There's tons of that already. I'd be interested in something 1/4 of such a machine with a way of cpu-bursting to the whole machine, especially with added HDD. I don't need any ipv4 or NAT (pure v6 is fine since it's for private infrastructure).

How does this sound: 4 slices, 1 dedicated core (2 threads) per slice, 12 shared cores with soft cap of 20% max utilization of the shared cores per slice on a monthly basis. That is, you have 1 core to yourself and can burst the other 12 up to 6 days a month. I think I could make good use of that. I currently use a 4-core i7-3770 and run it at 100% cpu for a few days a month and it's idle the rest of the time.

Not_Oles · February 2021

@willie said:
32 slices = you're supplying yet another small cheap KVM product. There's tons of that already. I'd be interested in something 1/4 of such a machine with a way of cpu-bursting to the whole machine, especially with added HDD. I don't need any ipv4 or NAT (pure v6 is fine since it's for private infrastructure).

How does this sound: 4 slices, 1 dedicated core (2 threads) per slice, 12 shared cores with soft cap of 20% max utilization of the shared cores per slice on a monthly basis. That is, you have 1 core to yourself and can burst the other 12 up to 6 days a month. I think I could make good use of that. I currently use a 4-core i7-3770 and run it at 100% cpu for a few days a month and it's idle the rest of the time.

Hi @willie! This sounds like a most interesting idea! Would you please say how much you might want to pay per month?

Not_Oles · February 2021

Without taking anything away from @willie's excellent idea above, please suppose that

There is an AX101.
it runs Debian on the metal.
Neighbors get an old-fashioned user account on the metal, but with enough sudo privileges to set up their own LXC containers or KVM instances.
There are only a few people on the machine. All of them are awesome.
All resources are "fair use," which means that some of the people can pig the resources some of the time.
Price? How much might you be willing to pay? Please consider prices of zero (free), $10, $20, $X>20 per month.
Anything else?

Who would come aboard this AX101?

Thanks very much! ?

seenu · February 2021

@Not_Oles said: Name Base Base/32
Thread 32 1
ECC RAM (GB) 128 4
NVMe (GB) 7680 240
IPv4s (/27) 30 1
Base Price (€) 99.00 3.09
IP price (€) 26.89 0.84
Total (€) 125.89 3.93

I like your plan and @willie idea is also very good.

probably fit 2 big players and several small players (who mostly idle it) and price wise, current price coming to $4.73 so if you double it....you can still offer it at ~$9-$9.5 and ppl still get excellent performance and specs.

and i can jump in, if you

@Not_Oles said: Who would come aboard this AX101?

I am, with above small plan (or 2x of it)

teamacc · February 2021

Just provide the two disks as "passthrough" on partitions main disks so people can roll their own raid0/1? (not sure if possible and feasible)

Also, if you can get this stable, I'd take a 8-12gb thing for 15 euros/month. Would be cheaper per GB than their cloud line.

saibal · February 2021

I like the old school time-sharing idea although I have more than enough resources for now.

Not_Oles · February 2021

@Not_Oles said: All resources are "fair use,"

I should not have used the term "fair use." "Fair use" often means some complicated percentage of the time policy that ends up as "not really dedicated."

What I meant was that each neighbor's stack of one or more slices can have its group of 100% dedicated "hyperthread nproc cores" ("ncores" = output of nproc(1)) pinned, perhaps with taskset(1), if that's what the neighbor wants, but usually provisioned via by the Linux kernel's very efficient default mechanism.

No way do I mean that a neighbor who buys dedicated gets less.

¡Saludos! ?️

Not_Oles · February 2021

@seenu said: i can jump in, if you

@teamacc said: if you can get this stable, I'd take a 8-12gb thing for 15 euros/month.

Thanks guys!

Not_Oles · February 2021

@saibal said:
I like the old school time-sharing idea although I have more than enough resources for now.

We will miss you! Maybe you can come aboard when the time is right. ?

Not_Oles · February 2021

nullnothere · February 2021

Oh Tom... Oh @Not_Oles ... :

Not one but two... uber drooling.

Not_Oles · February 2021

Ooops! Yeah, I don't know how that happened. I meant to order only one! I wrote to server-order asking them for only one. Sorry! My bad!

willie · February 2021

Would around 35 euro for 1/4 of the base machine plus whatever for HDD space (would need other users wanting that too I guess) be reasonable? Are you still thinking of doing a separate storage server? I'm a little bit scared to commit to this just now, even though it makes sense for me in principle. I'm currently paying 28 euro for an i7-3770 with 32gb ram and 2x 3tb hdd's. I don't really care about SSD for what I'm doing, but I'd like ideally around 5TB of raw storage, preferably raid.

Does anyone know yet the make/model of ssd's on the AX101? They should be visible through hdparm -a or whatever.

nullnothere · February 2021

@willie said: Does anyone know yet the make/model of ssd's on the AX101?

From this comment on the OGF it is TOSHIBA KXD51RUE3T84 and it seems pretty solid (TLC per the specs and 1 DWPD - so enough and more endurance that you shouldn't worry about it!).

uzaysan · February 2021

@willie said:
Would around 35 euro for 1/4 of the base machine plus whatever for HDD space (would need other users wanting that too I guess) be reasonable? Are you still thinking of doing a separate storage server? I'm a little bit scared to commit to this just now, even though it makes sense for me in principle. I'm currently paying 28 euro for an i7-3770 with 32gb ram and 2x 3tb hdd's. I don't really care about SSD for what I'm doing, but I'd like ideally around 5TB of raw storage, preferably raid.

Does anyone know yet the make/model of ssd's on the AX101? They should be visible through hdparm -a or whatever.

Why would you share resources for 35 euro. You can get ax41 for 34 euro (or 39 in germany) and move on.

RaveX · February 2021

How bout 4vcores (shared), 4gb ram, 50gb nvme with raid1 for $6? Thinking of doing that to my own server. Also, ill make it stackable. @Not_Oles should do something similar

Not_Oles · February 2021

@Not_Oles said:
Ooops! Yeah, I don't know how that happened. I meant to order only one! I wrote to server-order asking them for only one. Sorry! My bad!

Hetzner fixed my mistake. Thanks!

So, one order remains pending. . . .

Not_Oles · February 2021

@willie said:
Would around 35 euro for 1/4 of the base machine plus whatever for HDD space (would need other users wanting that too I guess) be reasonable?

It certainly would not be unreasonable. I might even take that offer if you still want to do it when we get to the right time.

Are you still thinking of doing a separate storage server?

That new SX server seems really nice. I would love to have one or three. . . . But not yet ready to move in the storage direction.

I'm currently paying 28 euro for an i7-3770 with 32gb ram and 2x 3tb hdd's. I don't really care about SSD for what I'm doing, but I'd like ideally around 5TB of raw storage, preferably raid.

Interesting! I think your i7 is a great deal!

I'm a little bit scared to commit to this just now, even though it makes sense for me in principle.

Your feeling a little concerned about commitment tells me that you are a reliable person, that your commitments are real, and that your commitments -- even informal commitments -- should be respected.

But, friend, no worries! We will see how everything works out, and I am sure everything will be fine!

i guess @Not_Oles gonna one of these shortly!

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i guess @Not_Oles gonna one of these shortly!

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