Epic Games sues Apple & Google
dev
OG
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21367923/fortnite-apple-app-store-epic-games-need-to-know
I don’t think many people play Fortnite on this forum, but I was surprised when I saw the news and the campaign... After Epic Games implemented their own purchase system in Fortnite, Apple & Google banned the game from the App Store/Play Store. Now they are sued. What is everyone’s opinion on the case?
PS: Is this the right category?
Comments
Good a category as any.
I suspect google/apple will win, they will have the right to do that very well reserved.
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An even more stupid case is Apple saying the Prepear logo is easily confused with its own.
Yep, I agree. Apple won’t allow 3rd party stores for security not just to monopoly, and they need to earn something from the App Store. Google allows 3rd party stores but due to security issues, they are against such and so makes it an extra step for normal consumers to be able to do so. Now, Epic Games is angry because it gets no traffic... I don’t get what law Apple & Google is breaking... Nevertheless, people who play the mobile version of pc games needs some help.
?
Epic says they are giving the 30% commission to the customers. 10$ IAP cost 7..$.
But that 7$ is just IAP too, goes to epic directly. They could reduce the prices a bit.
Enjoy meditation without religion for one month.
Sounds like a good move by EPIC. I hope they make some headway
Do you really believe that? What kind of security impact it might have? If you mean phishing / scams, people can and very well do use plain old Safari to fall for stupid scams all the time. If you mean literal security holes, I can't see how that is different from regular apps having vulnerabilities.
Good publicity/exposure for Prepear
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Honestly, from experience, I can tell you there is a rampant, massive amount of malware being spread on Android all the time by bullshit like "install roblox hack pirated full version!!!" with a video that guides the kid on how to enable non play store sideloading and click through all the device admin prompts.
A lot of the payloads are also used for subsequent malware spread and spam, like forcing devices to host reverse connecting proxies on their "real IPs" started at phone boot.
I am aware of all that, although that still doesn't explain the ban IMO. Simply having an outside means of in-app purchases is nothing to compare with malware-infested .apk files that plague third party Android ecosystem. Correct me if I'm wrong on this (since I never played fortnite) but it's not like they have implemented an app store like Cydia / F-Droid, they simply moved their in-app purchases from Appstore / Google Play, right?. There is no 3rd party code being downloaded from outside sources, they simply just decided not to pay commission to Apple / Google.
Thus it is understandable they don't want this to be a trend so they don't lose their sweet in-app purchase income. Gotta contain the disease before it spreads I guess.
For Android devices, epic games basically made their own Play Store few years ago because of the fee Google takes for IAP. However, because they don’t get as much attention as being available on the play store, the app was made available again on the play store about a year ago or something. Now, Epic Games secretly pushed an update, said fuck you for taking our money and broke the t&c. Then, when their app went down, filed a lawsuit.
For iOS devices, Epic Games can’t make their own play store like on android. The cut Apple take is 30% for all apps fair and square. I’m probably sure fortnite mobile makes millions of money, so while Apple is happy, Epic Games is not. So Epic Games once again pushed a secret update to allow direct payment, and when Apple noticed that they broke the t&c, brought down Fortnite leading to Epic Games filing a lawsuit. 30% cut seems high, but I think it’s justified for everything it does: even Grab Food or Uber Eats take as much if not more from restaurants. Sure, they can claim it a monopoly, and it indeed is, but in my opinion, the cut is justified and options like App Store Clone breaks the nature of security on iOS devices. If such option was made available, apps will no longer need to follow the apple’s guideline and many illegal, be it malware or pirate apps will suddenly be introduced.
And yep, fortnite makes some $$$? so Apple and Google wants to share a straw with Epic Games. Reviewing apps and hosting apps all costs money and I personally feel like Apple and Google are both in the right to get a commission. If all apps started doing that, they will die ?
Honestly, I don’t even know anything about laws and agreements, but I wonder how Epic Games can win the cases as they are the ones who violated the t&c... I hope someone good with these stuff can shed some light for a noob like me ?
Well, Epic does get a ton off free publicity at the moment even if they will lose the lawsuits. At least for droid, games are required to go through play store for in'game purchases. And would you rather give your CC info to google, where it's easy to request a refund in case your "kid" hits the "wrong" button, or to some shady app developer? It's the same reasoning behind people using paypal instead of CC when it comes to online shopping.
If Epic was so good @ heart wanting to save them customers 3$, at least for droid, they could have implemented an ad saying that customers can get the stuff cheaper if they install the game from other stores instead of just trying to steal money from google. Robin Hood was still a thief.
so say we all
Personally I don't even know what Fornite is and don't really care, but the way they are approaching it is from a monopoly/competition law/antitrust perspective. Their argument is that Apple have a "dominant market position", in that there is only one app store for iPhone and Apple completely control it. If this is found to be the case (which is TBD), then by law Apple will have certain obligations in terms of not limiting competition. For example, they would not be able to exclude apps from the app store which compete with their own apps - effectively they would have to modify their T&C (potentially to also allow apps with different in-app payment methods).
Of course, you can agree or not with this logic; I haven't been following and have no position. I am just the messenger trying to give a basic explanation.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bPn_PGuYesw
Edit: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21298552/apple-hey-email-app-approval-rules-basecamp-launch kind of solved?
Hey, not even PayPal charges 30% even though it sure feels like it
Michael
Epic Games will loose this. Google and Apple are huge corporations, and have the right to refuse business with Epic Games.
Well, gamers who own iPhones will move to Android. How big of a market is this? I don't know but I think it will be enough to hurt mighty Apple somewhat.
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It was all a planned attack. They had an in game event and legal paperwork already drawn up to attack. They pushed an update that intentionally provoked by doing this:
Easy target the 30% cut because of it's lack of popularity among internet commenters, but Epic isn't some good guy here. They just want more billions from their predatory IAP junk. Since tencent owns 40% of them and is highly suspected (if not right out known) to work with the Chinese government, I think it might be a state pushed event in reaction to the tiktok thing. Google coercing OnePlus into not adding an epic store to their phones, and Apple moving some manufacturing from China to India probably helped too. Just looks like more social/economic warfare between US and China disguised as "the little guy (lol) standing up to the big corporations" to me.
Swing and a miss on positioning themselves as the fantastically wealthy underdog, they were clearly the aggressors and they most definitely set out to get their app removed. Epic is many things, but a victim isn’t one of them.
Hate radiates from the source. If you look around and see it everywhere, it's coming from you.
You could argue they do much less however for the cut, PayPal especially, by merely being an intermediary between the card provider and the merchant.
Apple on the other hand reviews the apps and maintains the ecosystem so it continues to be secure. Hosts the apps and the app updates, even for the free apps and one off paid apps. Handles the payments and payment related support, provides marketing and exposure, and more, their cost base as such is significantly different and the higher cut justified.
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This was a well planned trap by Epic.
Apple clearly states that in-app purchases has to go trough Apple Pay, so that they can take a 30% cut.
However, there is a clause stating that goods and assets used outside of the app itself, does not have to be purchased trough Apple Pay. This is of course to facilitate for apps like Wish and Ebay since a 30% cut on everything purchased trough their apps would be insane and they would never agree to it.
Fortnite by Epic Games has something called "v-bucks", a virtual currency used to buy things in the game. Epic now argues that even if you buy the v-bucks in the app, you do not necessarily have to use them there. They are assigned to your Epic account which can be used on another device, such as your computer or console. Hence, its purchased in-app, but used outside of the app, so Epic argues they should not have to pay the 30% cut.
Apple of course did not see it this way and banned the app, and Epic immediately hit them with a very well written and prepared lawsuit. The timing was perfect, since Apple was already under fire for violating anti-thrust laws.
Google banned the Fortnite app the same day Apple did, on the same basis. Google takes exactly the same cut as Apple, with the same terms. Epic sued Google too, but for some reason media only focuses on the Apple lawsuit.
All unreal engine games will be affected on iOS and Mac os as apple will be locking developer account.
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